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they belonged to the anc, the same organization. my grandmother was also a political leader within the anc. >> and your grandmother then also was close to him and visited him in prison, and nelson mandela wrote her. >> several times, and my grandmother would write back. she told me she wrote so many letters, some of which never reached him. a few made it all the way and she put them into a book. and after giving them to the archives. >> having visited him in prison where he suffered, he it tuberculosis, problems with his eyesight. she must have seen the suffering. what did she say or what do you think about how he left prison and had the grace and indignity to invite the gaolers. >> at this point i have to d admit when she came back i thought she'd come back with a message of fighting. let's continue the fight. she said, "you'll be surprised, my grandson, nelson mandela is going to tell us all to reconcile, shake hands with our former enemies." he is convinced he'll be released. she came back convinced the man had not changed. he wa
they belonged to the anc, the same organization. my grandmother was also a political leader within the anc. >> and your grandmother then also was close to him and visited him in prison, and nelson mandela wrote her. >> several times, and my grandmother would write back. she told me she wrote so many letters, some of which never reached him. a few made it all the way and she put them into a book. and after giving them to the archives. >> having visited him in prison where he...
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Dec 5, 2013
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and the way in which they kept the anc down, was the suppression of cocainism act. so you can arrest anybody in south africa, without charge, and hold them in jail without being charged at all. and then they got out of jail at a certain amount of time, maybe 30 days and you could arrest them, and arrest theft gem on the suspicion of being communist. they convinced everybody that can't have communists running around, and that's how they made these racist laws work and work, and his comrades as he called them, worked around that. and they persisted. as thomas says, of something that looked like it would never change is the hallmark of these anc men and women. that you would never seen pictures like this. >> in the old days you would have been arrested for have blacks and whites arm in arm chanting in the street, couldn't do that. >> as we get closer to the top of the hour here, and we rescap where we are on this day, for the nation of sought africa, and ink deed, the world. nelson mandela, the father of the modern south africa has passed away, 95 years old, and this i
and the way in which they kept the anc down, was the suppression of cocainism act. so you can arrest anybody in south africa, without charge, and hold them in jail without being charged at all. and then they got out of jail at a certain amount of time, maybe 30 days and you could arrest them, and arrest theft gem on the suspicion of being communist. they convinced everybody that can't have communists running around, and that's how they made these racist laws work and work, and his comrades as...
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Dec 10, 2013
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when i said, the anc did this, no, richard, that was me. [laughter] remember, the struggle is my life, he said. he wanted to make sure his country and people were provided for. >> your parents are from south africa? >> both from cape town. >> i got to meet him on his historic visit to new york. i help the -- i helped out on the logistics. robert deniro and his generosity -- a major perception reception party when he opened up the tribeca bar and grill. he said to me, before i 02 south africa -- before i go home to south africa it, is there any way you could introduce me to elizabeth taylor? i didn't know her, but i knew michael jackson. i called michael jackson and said, can we introduce her when he goes to los angeles. michael said yes. he calls a vacuum is later and says, elizabeth tape -- elizabeth taylor would be happy to see mr. mandela, on the condition i come. i said, i can't promise that. let me ask you. and said, idiba don't really know elizabeth taylor, but michael jackson does and if she comes he was to accompany her. he said, th
when i said, the anc did this, no, richard, that was me. [laughter] remember, the struggle is my life, he said. he wanted to make sure his country and people were provided for. >> your parents are from south africa? >> both from cape town. >> i got to meet him on his historic visit to new york. i help the -- i helped out on the logistics. robert deniro and his generosity -- a major perception reception party when he opened up the tribeca bar and grill. he said to me, before i...
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Dec 10, 2013
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those were the old mainstream of the anc. mandela's advisors all wanted the old exiled group to come to power. mandela i think actually favored the interior people. he was not an authoritarian ruler, even within the anc. he was often outvoted by his comrades. i think he was outvoted there, too. >> last time you saw him? >> last year. >> he is the godfather of your daughter. >> he named her. he was very close with prudence. prudence, being a very prominent south african journalist. we went up to him and said we are couple, he looked at us like, what have you been up to? we asked if he would give us his blessing and be the best man. he said, it entitles me a child. he said that with that and get a baby. it took us nine years to have a baby. when the baby arrived, he was so excited. he was on vacation and he called up and said, i have named your child. ok. do want to tell the boss? she is here. what have you named her? what does it mean? "the one who has taken a long time to come." when she sees me, she will see i'm an old, feeb
those were the old mainstream of the anc. mandela's advisors all wanted the old exiled group to come to power. mandela i think actually favored the interior people. he was not an authoritarian ruler, even within the anc. he was often outvoted by his comrades. i think he was outvoted there, too. >> last time you saw him? >> last year. >> he is the godfather of your daughter. >> he named her. he was very close with prudence. prudence, being a very prominent south african...
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Dec 9, 2013
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i used it as long as it was successful, but when it stopped being successful, i turned the anc into a military armed wing because my plate goal, my overriding principle was premium for my people and justice for my people and anything that would get me there was what road i would take, that's a pragmatist, a pragmatic politician, not a saint. >> rose: jerry? >> yes, you know, i agree, rick is heartfelt on that because he was very pragmatic but one of my reflect shunls after 20 plus years is how real he was. i mean, you know, if you saw him flirtatious or joyful or festive or playful, it was that way when you were behind the scenes or when you were in front of the camera. but wow know, when he went out on any public appearance, howie was being, how he was being projected, how he was moving, i will tell you a very interesting story when we were back back as a family to see him right at towards the end, when the world cup was there. we walked into have just a little personal time with him and he said to me, how did we do? and that is an amazing comment, because he was so interested in how
i used it as long as it was successful, but when it stopped being successful, i turned the anc into a military armed wing because my plate goal, my overriding principle was premium for my people and justice for my people and anything that would get me there was what road i would take, that's a pragmatist, a pragmatic politician, not a saint. >> rose: jerry? >> yes, you know, i agree, rick is heartfelt on that because he was very pragmatic but one of my reflect shunls after 20 plus...
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Dec 7, 2013
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yes, he was the symbol of the anc. yes, he was this great mass leader, but nobody really knew who had not been in prison with him what his capacity was. would he really be able to lead? >> reporter: mandela seeks to move the nation forward together. >> to come out of prison with so very little bitterness and be able to concile warring afrikaners from the right and the black left. >> reporter: but mandela's desire for reconciliation among the people does not make the reconciling of political differences any smoother. with the lifting of a ban of political organizations like the anc and the release of political prisoners such as mandela, the government of south africa kb t commits itself to change and a new chorus of the country must be charted. >> they set out in a filmsy little rowboat to cross this ocean, and there was no turning back. >> reporter: the various political factions must go about the difficult task of dismanltsidismanlts i dismantling the rule of apartheid and incorporating all citizens into the process.
yes, he was the symbol of the anc. yes, he was this great mass leader, but nobody really knew who had not been in prison with him what his capacity was. would he really be able to lead? >> reporter: mandela seeks to move the nation forward together. >> to come out of prison with so very little bitterness and be able to concile warring afrikaners from the right and the black left. >> reporter: but mandela's desire for reconciliation among the people does not make the...
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let's remember, the anc that he refers to, they were pursuing freedom. many of the communist nations embraced them, this country did not. it was not like they were born marxist, they were born people seeking to be free. some of the marxist nation either genuinely or in a self-interest way tried to embrace that. this country did not and fought that and denounced them and denigrated them. and i think for us now to sugarcoat that is a betrayal of history. we chose sides. we chose the wrong side. people in this country turned us around toward the right side. that set the stage for mandela to evolve. but if you're drowning and someone throws you your raft to get out, you don't call them a rafter, you call yourself the one that's trying to stop from drowning. those are the ones that threw the raft in south africa for freedom fighters. >> i think you have to put the african national liberation movements in the global context of the struggle against communism. as the reverend said, they were supported by the soviet union, they were funded by the soviet union, th
let's remember, the anc that he refers to, they were pursuing freedom. many of the communist nations embraced them, this country did not. it was not like they were born marxist, they were born people seeking to be free. some of the marxist nation either genuinely or in a self-interest way tried to embrace that. this country did not and fought that and denounced them and denigrated them. and i think for us now to sugarcoat that is a betrayal of history. we chose sides. we chose the wrong side....
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and joe himself isn't a member of the and the anc youth league. which one demo was from the very early days is well and becoming a member of the anc in the mid nineteen fifties. he's pretty one at the old veterans of both the open i say she got really strong but same time as montana he said it speaking of bikes that pissed you notice the other day we will not weep the mighty mighty but he would not approve of. it seems to be all right let's get back it is. listen to the tent again. i know. still the lead the day the eye the us. it is in the is you his yards are i love the falls cheese each day and some onions served with him in prison on robben island the project. they said technical problems that lets it go to auntie jen has already ceased to be standing by and he said. he tells about the ceremony so far and about and you can eat. and what does one stop for the engine then again it was tuesday to seat backs and the preceding stopped. they said it's not an awesome and data was very respectful of all the major faiths effective organizations in sout
and joe himself isn't a member of the and the anc youth league. which one demo was from the very early days is well and becoming a member of the anc in the mid nineteen fifties. he's pretty one at the old veterans of both the open i say she got really strong but same time as montana he said it speaking of bikes that pissed you notice the other day we will not weep the mighty mighty but he would not approve of. it seems to be all right let's get back it is. listen to the tent again. i know....
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Dec 8, 2013
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let's remember, the anc that he refers to, they were pursuing freedom. many of the communist nations embraced them, this country did not. it was not like they were born marxist, they were born people seeking to be free. some of the marxist nation either genuinely or in a self-interest way tried to embrace that. this country did not and fought that and denounced them and denigrated them. and i think for us now to sugarcoat that is a betrayal of history. we chose sides. we chose the wrong side. people in this country turned us around toward the right side. that set the stage for mandela to evolve. but if you're drowning and someone throws you your raft to get out, you don't call them a rafter, you call yourself the one that's trying to stop from drowning. those are the ones that threw the raft in south africa for freedom fighters. >> i think you have to put the african national liberation movements in the global context of the struggle against communism. as the reverend said, they were supported by the soviet union, they were funded by the soviet union, th
let's remember, the anc that he refers to, they were pursuing freedom. many of the communist nations embraced them, this country did not. it was not like they were born marxist, they were born people seeking to be free. some of the marxist nation either genuinely or in a self-interest way tried to embrace that. this country did not and fought that and denounced them and denigrated them. and i think for us now to sugarcoat that is a betrayal of history. we chose sides. we chose the wrong side....
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you are alluding to those poverty shortages, anc corruption scandals. but the lose of nelson mandela will be a huge void, won't it, which is bringing people together right now as they remember his achievements. i just give you an example of a void he crossed. it was the 1999 world cup, the final match between south africa and new zealand when nelson mandela took to the field in the rugby jersey. i was there at the first match when south africa played australia. there was a stadium full of 65,000 white bull necked afrikaanas, frankly. no black face, very few indian. rugby was a white man's sport. i was sitting with nelson mandela. he went on to the ground to toss the coin. almost immediately there was a chant, "nelson mandela, nelson mandela" and i realised who was going on. i realised it was a huge outpouring of affection and genuine respect of this man, who they had previously totally vilified. i realised then, this was a spine-tingling moment what the measure of this man's achievement had been. i think it's the legacy for all the difficulties. they ar
you are alluding to those poverty shortages, anc corruption scandals. but the lose of nelson mandela will be a huge void, won't it, which is bringing people together right now as they remember his achievements. i just give you an example of a void he crossed. it was the 1999 world cup, the final match between south africa and new zealand when nelson mandela took to the field in the rugby jersey. i was there at the first match when south africa played australia. there was a stadium full of...
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the goal for the anc was democracy. civil nonviolence and then he married his first wife in johannesburg and then was sent to prison. the national party government banned the anc. he was sent to prison repeatedly. his wife ended up leaving him then and 60 plus more were killed during a demonstration. 180 were wounded so he was sent to prison for that. charged with sabotage. charged with conspiracy and then after prison got out and became president of south africa. what we're looking at right now is the memorial service. you can see people there that are excited because they're celebrating really, the life of nelson mandela. i read an interesting quote that he said. he said when a man has done his duty to the people, he can rest in peace. i believe i have made that effort and that is therefore why i will sleep for eternity. pretty powerful. now our senior foreign affairs correspondence is there at the stadium right now. telling us what's happening on the ground. what an impact he made in the lives of so many individuals.
the goal for the anc was democracy. civil nonviolence and then he married his first wife in johannesburg and then was sent to prison. the national party government banned the anc. he was sent to prison repeatedly. his wife ended up leaving him then and 60 plus more were killed during a demonstration. 180 were wounded so he was sent to prison for that. charged with sabotage. charged with conspiracy and then after prison got out and became president of south africa. what we're looking at right...
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but still, the anc and president mandela were considered terrorists. and it wasn't until i was in south africa a few years ago that i learned of this and came back and then we started our efforts with homeland security and with the state department to get him removed from the terrorist list. and that was for his 90th birthday. >> this is a really important moment, this reagan -- the apartheid, the sanctions bill. this movement starts to grow as nelson mandela in prison becomes the face of this movement. ronald reagan actually vetoes a bill passed by both houses of congress to impose sanctions on south africa and members of his own party vote against him to override the veto. the veto is actually overwritten. >> the veto is overwritten. and i think that -- you know, over the next few days, we're going to hear a lot of people talking. it was the heroism of people like harry bellefonte and ron dellums and barbara lee. and then you hear that when it was not only popular, but you were suspect to fight on behalf of the anc, because they were considered terro
but still, the anc and president mandela were considered terrorists. and it wasn't until i was in south africa a few years ago that i learned of this and came back and then we started our efforts with homeland security and with the state department to get him removed from the terrorist list. and that was for his 90th birthday. >> this is a really important moment, this reagan -- the apartheid, the sanctions bill. this movement starts to grow as nelson mandela in prison becomes the face of...
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. >> he founded a military offshoot of the anc. he was arrested again in 1962 and tried for his anti-apartheid activity. mandela when sentenced to life in prison in 1964. he would end up spending a quarter of a century behind bars, first in robben island, then in cape town. waves of violence shook the country while he was in prison. forces shoternment dozens of youth and schoolchildren demonstrating peacefully. in the 1980's, the ministrations -- demonstrations and police violence continued. the country's economy collapse. the anti-apartment movement it momentumked up abroad and nelson mandela became its symbol. mandela was eventually innsferred to another prison 1988 when he initiated secret negotiations with the government. in 1990, the ban on the anc was lifted. that year he walked out a free man. mandela was elected president of the anc in 1991. he continued to negotiate with president f.w. de klerk to seek an end to the country's racist laws. both men were awarded the nobel peace prize in 1993. >> we can stop the forward movem
. >> he founded a military offshoot of the anc. he was arrested again in 1962 and tried for his anti-apartheid activity. mandela when sentenced to life in prison in 1964. he would end up spending a quarter of a century behind bars, first in robben island, then in cape town. waves of violence shook the country while he was in prison. forces shoternment dozens of youth and schoolchildren demonstrating peacefully. in the 1980's, the ministrations -- demonstrations and police violence...
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as greg mentioned the anc is going through a very tumultuous period. and mandela was their symbol of hope. >> a lot to ask you, but i believe the secretary of united nations is talking about the passing of nelson mandela. >> aspirations of the united nations. he shows what is possible for our world, and we didn't within each one of us, if we believe, a three man work together for justice and humanity. he is more decisive, in dismantling the system of apartheid. he marched from detention without rancor. i was privileged to meet nelson mandela in february 2009. he insisted the credit belonged to others. i will never forget his selflessness, and deep sense of shared purpose. on behalf of the united nations, i extend my deepest condolences to his family, the people of south africa, and indeed our global family. let us continue each day to be inspired by nelson mandela's life long example, to keep walking or a better and just world. thank you. the u.n. secretary general offering his thoughts on the passing of the former south african president. morgan, you
as greg mentioned the anc is going through a very tumultuous period. and mandela was their symbol of hope. >> a lot to ask you, but i believe the secretary of united nations is talking about the passing of nelson mandela. >> aspirations of the united nations. he shows what is possible for our world, and we didn't within each one of us, if we believe, a three man work together for justice and humanity. he is more decisive, in dismantling the system of apartheid. he marched from...
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>> what happened is nelson mandela and the anc had to from all over the world. and basically, he was being rafat was incause a support of getting rid of apartheid. he was being told you can't talk to him and then he said, you can't tell me who my friends are. tavis: at the time i was not on tv but this is where i was headed. this is a broadcasters questioned. have thisasion you interview, do you feel that those conversations measured up? sometimes you get a big-name name and they don't give you anything. >> he was 100%. i tried to anticipate what someone will be like. but he more than magnified them. reaching,rm, far- forgiving and understanding, with a gentleness and the warmth, but at the same time, there was a strength, to perceive strength and understanding, through strength at the same time. >> i was fascinated by him. he joined them in his 20s. smart, but hed, was a warrior, he really did provide the leadership with confronting the apartheid regime. what is fascinating about him is knowing what he went through, and then serving 27 years in prison, coming o
>> what happened is nelson mandela and the anc had to from all over the world. and basically, he was being rafat was incause a support of getting rid of apartheid. he was being told you can't talk to him and then he said, you can't tell me who my friends are. tavis: at the time i was not on tv but this is where i was headed. this is a broadcasters questioned. have thisasion you interview, do you feel that those conversations measured up? sometimes you get a big-name name and they don't...
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>> well, the anc, the ruling party is the people's party. they have a lot of support. that said, people are questioning the before of some of the politicians, they are wondering where is the country going forward. the mining incident you spoke about, 16 august, when miners on strike were trying to call for higher wages. police aped fire. 34 were shot and killed. the pictures shocked the world. they remind us of the apartheid dates when white policemen would shoot black people who were prote protesti protesting, calling for equality. i think the main thing of concern for south africans is nelson mandela taught them or encouraged them to forgive, forget and move forward. issues of employment and equality. people are frustrated. we are talking 20 years since independence. now we see more people striking. they are basically saying, "what are you going do as a government. now that the moral compass has gone, can the leaders move the place forward and make it a prosperous place and realised the love nelson mandela had for his people. >> what is the state of - sorry to put it
>> well, the anc, the ruling party is the people's party. they have a lot of support. that said, people are questioning the before of some of the politicians, they are wondering where is the country going forward. the mining incident you spoke about, 16 august, when miners on strike were trying to call for higher wages. police aped fire. 34 were shot and killed. the pictures shocked the world. they remind us of the apartheid dates when white policemen would shoot black people who were...
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. >> reporter: the anc was banned. he became an outlaw, but he refused to back down. arrested in 1962 mandela was charged with sabotage and with attempting to violently overthrow the government. he was convicted and sentenced to life in prison. for decades the struggle for justice in south africa continued with the imprisoned nelson mandela as its symbol. at times he was forced to break rocks in the hot sun for hours at a time. the government offered mandela freedom if he would renounce violence. he refused. >> today marks the 25th year behind bars for nelson mandela. >> reporter: south africa became an international outcast, facing sanctions, boycotts, and growing political pressure. >> nelson mandela should be released to participate in the country's political process. ♪ >> reporter: rock concerts for the cause were broadcast around the world. ♪ hey, mandela >> the release of nelson mandela. >> reporter: in 1989 south africa's hardline president p.w.bota resigned, replaced by f.w. clark who slowly began to dismantle apartheid. the ban on the anc was lifted, and
. >> reporter: the anc was banned. he became an outlaw, but he refused to back down. arrested in 1962 mandela was charged with sabotage and with attempting to violently overthrow the government. he was convicted and sentenced to life in prison. for decades the struggle for justice in south africa continued with the imprisoned nelson mandela as its symbol. at times he was forced to break rocks in the hot sun for hours at a time. the government offered mandela freedom if he would renounce...
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the ban on anc was lifted. and on february 11th, 1990, nelson mandela walked to freedom. >> nelson mandela, free at last and back among his people. >> i thank you all. >> reporter: 27 years in prison had not weakened mandela's resolve. >> i'm going to go on as long as the government has not responded to us. >> reporter: but he also urged restraint, even forgiveness telling blacks to, quote, throw their guns into the sea and reassuring anxious whites. >> whites are fellow south africans and we want them to feel safe. >> reporter: mandela's courage and sacrifice was recognized around the world. in america he was welcomed as a hero. mandela and declerk were awarded the nobel peace prize in 1993. the following year in the first mixed race election in south africa's history, nelson mandela was elected president. >> today is a day like no other before it. >> reporter: we were the first to interview him on that first morning as president elect. mandela tempered south africa's joy when he said healing his country would
the ban on anc was lifted. and on february 11th, 1990, nelson mandela walked to freedom. >> nelson mandela, free at last and back among his people. >> i thank you all. >> reporter: 27 years in prison had not weakened mandela's resolve. >> i'm going to go on as long as the government has not responded to us. >> reporter: but he also urged restraint, even forgiveness telling blacks to, quote, throw their guns into the sea and reassuring anxious whites. >>...
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the anc and the other major organizations opposing apartheid has been nonviolent organizing. they decided maybe that wasn't enough and nelson mandella was one of the leaders who went underground to help start it. they would try to sabotage the state. they banned the amc. they made it illegal to be a member of that group. nelson mandella was arrested for treason in 1961. in 1962, he was convicted of traveling illegally. while he was already serving that sentence, while he was already in prison, they put him on trial again, this time for sabotage. they convicted him and sentenced him to life on robin island. he began a new sentence that was a life sentence. and for the first 18 years of it, his cell had no bed, no plumbing of ne kind. he was permitted one visitor per year for 30 minutes. he became a symbol, worldwide, of the fight to stop apartheid. the south african government would not allow a picture of him to be taken in prison for decades. so the image was always him when he had been locked away. he served 27 years in prison. when fw clerk was elected president in 1989, it
the anc and the other major organizations opposing apartheid has been nonviolent organizing. they decided maybe that wasn't enough and nelson mandella was one of the leaders who went underground to help start it. they would try to sabotage the state. they banned the amc. they made it illegal to be a member of that group. nelson mandella was arrested for treason in 1961. in 1962, he was convicted of traveling illegally. while he was already serving that sentence, while he was already in prison,...
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is the anc portraying that vision? when you look at president zuma's track record it seem to have went from corruption scandal to corruption scandal. i think many are sick of that because mandela was very materialistic so a very interesting comparison, i think, between the kurn presidency where you're talking about huge upgrades to mansions and houses and huge blue light brigades and mandela did things very simply. i think south africans look to that as the man who just his post presidential house was built as the same model. he got the architectural plans of the last house he stayed in when he was in prison, the warden's house and he got that rebuilt. so that gives you an idea of the kind of man and presidency that he had. [ speaking in foreign language ] >> we are talking about the world leaders who are here. it is an unprecedented collection of world leader and family members here now are taking the stage. these are the younger generation of the mandela family, the grandchildren. >> there they are. >> let's listen i
is the anc portraying that vision? when you look at president zuma's track record it seem to have went from corruption scandal to corruption scandal. i think many are sick of that because mandela was very materialistic so a very interesting comparison, i think, between the kurn presidency where you're talking about huge upgrades to mansions and houses and huge blue light brigades and mandela did things very simply. i think south africans look to that as the man who just his post presidential...
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there's still an emotional attachment to the anc. but a lot of people here and within the anc are starting to question where this party will take them in the next 20 years. and i think it's going to be a very difficult road, not only for the party but for this country, as it navigates i suppose the post-mandela era. and i think there are, depending who you speak to, there are challenges. there are complexities. and south africans are very much aware of that. >> sort of the young firebrand leader who's broken away from the anc, created his own party. >> he's caused a huge amount of trouble, julius melema. they've kicked him out of the party of that wing. even president obama when he went to south africa just a few months ago talked about the great transformation in all sorts of ways. there are many many ways, south africa for awhile was the engine of africa for a long time after mandela and democracy came. but it's slowing down obviously the growth, and there is massive corruption as robyn said. and the president pointed that out. thi
there's still an emotional attachment to the anc. but a lot of people here and within the anc are starting to question where this party will take them in the next 20 years. and i think it's going to be a very difficult road, not only for the party but for this country, as it navigates i suppose the post-mandela era. and i think there are, depending who you speak to, there are challenges. there are complexities. and south africans are very much aware of that. >> sort of the young firebrand...
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>>. >> the deputy leader of the anc is speaking. he played a crucial role in the anti-apartheid struggle. a crucial role. no secret that mandela would like him to be his successor. still now ramposa -- this is winnie mandela about to go in now. a huge cheer coming up here. >> it cannot be overstated the importance she was to mandela and what -- now the crowd is seeing. listen in to the response she is getti getting. >> some of them are chanting winnie, winnie. >> many say there would not be a nelson mandela without winnie mandela. >> absolutely. he was silent for 27 years and she took on the mantle and she was also jailed but she kept on going and apartheid regime knew they could get to her. she was brutalized by the apartheid even more so because they knew that would hurt mandela. now here is mandela's widow, graca. the only one to be married to two head of state. she was married to the president that was killed in a plane crash. this has been extraordinarily hard for all of these women and she does look very pained. he has been ve
>>. >> the deputy leader of the anc is speaking. he played a crucial role in the anti-apartheid struggle. a crucial role. no secret that mandela would like him to be his successor. still now ramposa -- this is winnie mandela about to go in now. a huge cheer coming up here. >> it cannot be overstated the importance she was to mandela and what -- now the crowd is seeing. listen in to the response she is getti getting. >> some of them are chanting winnie, winnie. >>...
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but still, the anc and president mandela were considered terrorists. and it wasn't until i was in south africa a few years ago that i learned of this and came back and then we started our efforts with homeland security and with the state department to get him removed from the terrorist list. and that was for his 90th birthday. >> this is a really important moment, this reagan -- the apartheid, the sanctions bill. this movement starts to grow as nelson mandela in prison becomes the face of this movement. ronald reagan actually vetoes a bill passed by both houses of congress to impose sanctions on south africa and members of his own party vote against him to override the veto. the veto is actually overwritten. >> the veto is overwritten. and i think that -- you know, over the next few days, we're going to hear a lot of people talking. it was the heroism of people like bill anonte and ron dellums and barbara lee. and then you hear that when it was not only popular, but you were suspect to fight on behalf of the anc, because they were considered terrorists
but still, the anc and president mandela were considered terrorists. and it wasn't until i was in south africa a few years ago that i learned of this and came back and then we started our efforts with homeland security and with the state department to get him removed from the terrorist list. and that was for his 90th birthday. >> this is a really important moment, this reagan -- the apartheid, the sanctions bill. this movement starts to grow as nelson mandela in prison becomes the face of...
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at one point the anc made decisions to try and take away all the symbols of the springboks. he knew this was wrong, the whites would think they weren't wanted in south africa. and he got the anc to change its mind and he turned the springboks into a team which supported by whites and blacks alike. it became a truly national team. this was his way or a small example, if you like, of how to unify our nations. he had a sense of purpose. and i only wish we had three or four mandela's scattered around the world now and then we'd never feel the problems that bedevil us all. >> yeah, indeed, absolutely. prime minister frazier, thank you so much for sharing your memories and your time you spent with nelson mandela. we appreciate it very much. thank you, sir. >> it's wonderful to hear all these stories, all these recollections of these private meetings. >> what people say about mandela is he knew the value of something which is called a teachable moment. something we have heard about of late. he knew the value of wearing that springboks jersey at the world couple. he knew the power o
at one point the anc made decisions to try and take away all the symbols of the springboks. he knew this was wrong, the whites would think they weren't wanted in south africa. and he got the anc to change its mind and he turned the springboks into a team which supported by whites and blacks alike. it became a truly national team. this was his way or a small example, if you like, of how to unify our nations. he had a sense of purpose. and i only wish we had three or four mandela's scattered...
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but in 1960 after police shot and killed 49 protestors, the anc which had always been nonviolent created a military wing under mandela's command. >> there are many people who feel that it's useless and futile for us to continue talking peace and nonviolence against the government. >> reporter: the regime determined to maintain white rule saw the inspiring young revolutionary as a threat. >> our struggle is truly national. it is a struggle for the right to live. >> reporter: mandela was imprisoned in 1962 and two years later sentenced to life in prison, accused of working to overthrow the government. in court, on trial for his life he said this. >> i have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society. it is an ideal for which i hope to live and to see realized, but my lord, if it needs be, it is an ideal for which i am prepared to die. >> reporter: four miles off the coast of cape town south africa on robben island, he spent most of his years cut off from the world but not forgotten. >> to spend 27 years in the prime of your life is a tragedy and i regret in all those years that i
but in 1960 after police shot and killed 49 protestors, the anc which had always been nonviolent created a military wing under mandela's command. >> there are many people who feel that it's useless and futile for us to continue talking peace and nonviolence against the government. >> reporter: the regime determined to maintain white rule saw the inspiring young revolutionary as a threat. >> our struggle is truly national. it is a struggle for the right to live. >>...
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he finally became the commander of the uk, the military arm of south african, the anc troops. he was a freedom fighter fighting to end a system that lost all credibility in the world. but also having come through the scars of exile, the scars of 27 years of jail, through all of that, he said we must get up from here and don't linger here, that we must choose at this point reconciliation over retaliation and revenge. that's a critical turning point. he could have come out demanding revenge and there would have been a bloody mess in south africa. today, south africa has the fastest growing economy in all of africa because he chose reconciliation over retaliation and revenge. >> reverend jesse jackson, thank you so much. good luck with your vigil this evening. i'm sure it will be very moving. >> thank you, sir. >>> coming up in the next hour, bill clinton is in "the situation room" with wolf blitzer to talk about the legacy of nelson mandela. when we come back, the hollywood version of nelson mandela. some of the 20 or so actors who have portrayed him share their stories, next. c
he finally became the commander of the uk, the military arm of south african, the anc troops. he was a freedom fighter fighting to end a system that lost all credibility in the world. but also having come through the scars of exile, the scars of 27 years of jail, through all of that, he said we must get up from here and don't linger here, that we must choose at this point reconciliation over retaliation and revenge. that's a critical turning point. he could have come out demanding revenge and...
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there was a feeling that the anc was communist? >> i think so. there were many politicians in the united states and globally in western countries who felt that the anc was in fact an off shoot of the south african communist party. that it was affiliated with the larger com communist movement globally. i think they misunderstood history and they misunderstood the desire of black people across africa and southern after africa at the time to seek justice and equality for themselves on the same level. regrettably mr. will was wrong and as were a number of leading american politicians on the right who solved the anc as a communist organization. i would note just historically and it's very important fact that the anc which was established in 1905 predates by a decade and a half the establishment of the russian communist party. the struggle for equality based on the content of a person's character and not the color of his skin was the main driver for nelson mandela as it was for civil rights leader here in the united states. there is a join and conjunct
there was a feeling that the anc was communist? >> i think so. there were many politicians in the united states and globally in western countries who felt that the anc was in fact an off shoot of the south african communist party. that it was affiliated with the larger com communist movement globally. i think they misunderstood history and they misunderstood the desire of black people across africa and southern after africa at the time to seek justice and equality for themselves on the...
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he legalized the anc. and in february of 1990 he visited then 71 year old nelson mandela, still imprisoned 2 y7 r years later. and on february 11, 1990, nelson mandela emerged. >> i now announce to you the great mandela who has been in prison for 27 years. >> nelson mandela speaks after 27 years. >> fellow south africans, i greet you all in the name of peace. democracy and freedom for all. i stand here before you not as a prophet, but as a humble servant of you, the people. >> after 27 years in prison when nel some mandela was released he led the negotiations for the anc for the end of apartheid and apartheid was dismantled. and on the 27th of april, 1994 he was elected the new president of south africa in the first election ever held in that country where all adult citizens were welcome to vote regardless of race. millions of people waited in line to vote, in voting that took three days. and april 27 is now a national holiday in south africa. it's called freedom day. and when it came time to sign the new
he legalized the anc. and in february of 1990 he visited then 71 year old nelson mandela, still imprisoned 2 y7 r years later. and on february 11, 1990, nelson mandela emerged. >> i now announce to you the great mandela who has been in prison for 27 years. >> nelson mandela speaks after 27 years. >> fellow south africans, i greet you all in the name of peace. democracy and freedom for all. i stand here before you not as a prophet, but as a humble servant of you, the people....
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this is cyril ramaposa number two man in the anc, has gone on to be a successful businessman here in south africa. so we'll join the program and jump in here to describe events as we. -- as we find out they ae happening. >> -- succeed if we reach out to each other. this is the man that we have come to say farewell to. a man who has built our nation. in many ways, we are here today to tell madiba that his long walk is over, that he can finally rest, that he can enjoy the view of our beautiful country, of south africa. a view he discovered when he began walking the hills of his birthplace. his long walk is over, but ours is only beginning, and with t t that, as we walk down memory lane, i would like us now to do what he would have wanted us to do. that is, to open this memorial service with an interfaith opening prayer. i would like to call upon chief rabbi warren, the hindu faith, for the muslim faith and archbishop of the christian faith to come and give us opening prayers on an interfaith basis. please, go ahead, chief rabbi. >> god and king who is full of compassion, god of the spi
this is cyril ramaposa number two man in the anc, has gone on to be a successful businessman here in south africa. so we'll join the program and jump in here to describe events as we. -- as we find out they ae happening. >> -- succeed if we reach out to each other. this is the man that we have come to say farewell to. a man who has built our nation. in many ways, we are here today to tell madiba that his long walk is over, that he can finally rest, that he can enjoy the view of our...
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in other words the 80% of the population that is black has voted overwhelmingly for the anc. the opposition party has been predominately white. so unless or until south africa breaks out of that particular mold, it is difficult to bring about rapid change. so is it too much to ask, the people in townships, is it too much to ask of the government, 20 years of afc rule, to have brought about the dramatic changes that have improved the lives of the people in the townships? >> two issues here. twenty-first is the overall rate of economic growth has been disappointing. it's a little over 3% a year, that's substantially less. than say in china. the second is the educational system has failed the population. for reasons can are obscure. not very similar. about a quarter of the country's budget is on education. that being the case, why isn't the delivery very much better. >> that's a question we ask here in the united states. >> we do. >> so -- no one wants to be thought of as being pessimistic, or apisms so what degree of optimism do you have for the future of south africa. >> oh, p
in other words the 80% of the population that is black has voted overwhelmingly for the anc. the opposition party has been predominately white. so unless or until south africa breaks out of that particular mold, it is difficult to bring about rapid change. so is it too much to ask, the people in townships, is it too much to ask of the government, 20 years of afc rule, to have brought about the dramatic changes that have improved the lives of the people in the townships? >> two issues...
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he was for the policies which the anc buzz founded. test monday tutu said that it changed h imfrom an aggressive young militant, isn't it ironic that that terrible imprisonment may have forged him as the great leader he then became? >> i think most people forget that he was a great leader before he went into prison. i have been watching the reports on him, and they seem to forget the contributions he made all the things that he did before he went into jail. so he was a leader long before he went into prison. perhaps prison made him mellow a bit. until he saw that people needed to be defended. >> i would not -- i am sorry, he was really not violent, it was defense. he was never really violent. but he had preached nonviolence very very strongly, and it got to the point after a massacre and all sorts of things, defense, they felt they needed to take up arms in order to struggle against the white government that was still oppressing so many people, i didn't mean nit a pray othertive way, i understand what you are saying. but i guess my poi
he was for the policies which the anc buzz founded. test monday tutu said that it changed h imfrom an aggressive young militant, isn't it ironic that that terrible imprisonment may have forged him as the great leader he then became? >> i think most people forget that he was a great leader before he went into prison. i have been watching the reports on him, and they seem to forget the contributions he made all the things that he did before he went into jail. so he was a leader long before...
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then it was elected president of the anc in nineteen ninety one. he continued to negotiate the president of the butte occurred to seek an end to the country's racist goals. three men were wanted them to the price in nineteen ninety three. nope all. i didn't fight at all. when paul. it was. apartheid when he came to an end in nineteen ninety four when like some africans were down to play for the first time in the country's history the agency won the parliamentary elections and nelson mandela was elected president of south africa eyes before you. they would get involved. by the bottle all this time. you have shown such a crime patient to detonation. will be made this card. as a whole updated. from the rooftops free at last the june nineteen ninety nine off to just one presidential term councilman dan everett on from politics. he remained committed to promoting peace and justice. the counts against fifty thousand pre invasion of iraq. and what comes out of the team needs in two thousand and five he revealed to the that is eldest son had delayed if the
then it was elected president of the anc in nineteen ninety one. he continued to negotiate the president of the butte occurred to seek an end to the country's racist goals. three men were wanted them to the price in nineteen ninety three. nope all. i didn't fight at all. when paul. it was. apartheid when he came to an end in nineteen ninety four when like some africans were down to play for the first time in the country's history the agency won the parliamentary elections and nelson mandela was...
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do you think this is the end of the anc of nelson mandela's party? >> it is not end but it is a moment of reconsideration i think for anc. they have to straz very wisely but they also have to put forward a much stronger set of policies if they want people to support them in the same way. >> brieflily you says nothing in because -- >> because a lot of south africans are going to support the anc. >> with nelson mandela on the top of everyone's mind. >> and the other parties are not offering people all that much alternatives. >> they are stuck with the anc? >> not stuck. but they keep returning the same political -- >> it has been in power a long:00, it is familiar. >> right but it has to do with the fact that the strength of the anc relies on its shapelessness amorphous -- it is a political party that offers people a bit of what they want, a little bit of left wing politics, a little bit of right wing and a little bit of the center and because of that special mix of the african national congress even when people are disgruntled with the party they stil
do you think this is the end of the anc of nelson mandela's party? >> it is not end but it is a moment of reconsideration i think for anc. they have to straz very wisely but they also have to put forward a much stronger set of policies if they want people to support them in the same way. >> brieflily you says nothing in because -- >> because a lot of south africans are going to support the anc. >> with nelson mandela on the top of everyone's mind. >> and the other...
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so they are kind of right now stopped with the anc? >> not stuck, but they just keep returning the same political. >> been in power for a long time, 20 years now. it is familiar? >> right but i think it's to do with the strength 69 anc lies in exactly almost it's shapelessness, sort of amorefus because it's a political party that offers nearly everybody what they want, left-wing, a little bit of right-wing and a little bit of the center. so, i think because of that spentb special mic of the national african con congress, they still find something in it that appeals to them. >> especially since it has accomplished great features? >> exactly. >> can't lose site of that? >> other political parties don't have as much of that historical mission, historical achievement? >> we will see what develops there. in the meantime, everyone is remembering their most pivotal leaders, nelson mandel a? >> i think that moment will last for a bit, that moment of rememberance and commemoration and, also, the value orizatiori 6r7b8ing9s thank you for being i
so they are kind of right now stopped with the anc? >> not stuck, but they just keep returning the same political. >> been in power for a long time, 20 years now. it is familiar? >> right but i think it's to do with the strength 69 anc lies in exactly almost it's shapelessness, sort of amorefus because it's a political party that offers nearly everybody what they want, left-wing, a little bit of right-wing and a little bit of the center. so, i think because of that spentb...
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this former anc soldier and his wife were there the day after nelson mandela was released from prison 23 years ago. >> back and 1954 how as opposed to black emanation as we are too white domination. >> you say that you are sitting on this side, right? what was going through your mind at that time when you saw mandela walking into the stadium? >> when mandela was walking , is justhe stadium pull out my pistol and shoot, feeling like crying. >> africa! africa! >> they were talking about .andela i told myself i was going to see mandela. they shouted for him. it was very nice. >> today, they joined presidents, prime ministers, and the world in paying tribute to nelson mandela, returning to the stadium where they had seen him speak all those years ago. here, soands of people .any world leaders >> pride is one of the things they man they call madiba gave them. they came to remember the man their nation. how could they possibly forget him? >> she is right. i was in that stadium, two, in 1990 after mandela had just gotten out of prison, and it was indeed very nice. tomorrow, there will be a m
this former anc soldier and his wife were there the day after nelson mandela was released from prison 23 years ago. >> back and 1954 how as opposed to black emanation as we are too white domination. >> you say that you are sitting on this side, right? what was going through your mind at that time when you saw mandela walking into the stadium? >> when mandela was walking , is justhe stadium pull out my pistol and shoot, feeling like crying. >> africa! africa! >>...
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i mean, my god, the denunciations of the anc at the time. it was as though these people were, you know, were like, you know, the cultural revolution in china. it was just this sort of unthinkable thing that was sweeping down on an allied government. and then you look at them now. it's fine. it worked out just fine. >> right. and the remarkable thing is that reconciliation that happens, and the forging of this kind of multiracial national identity that mandela is now being praised for, that only came after this epic struggle. maxine waters who was an absolute vanguard in that fight and thomas frank from harper's, thank you so much. >> you're so welcome. >>> when we come back, another installment of our bizarro congress series. stick around for that. is it africa? the middle east? canada? or the u.s.? the answer is... the u.s. ♪ most of america's energy comes from right here at home. take the energy quiz. energy lives here. [ male announcer ] the rhythm of life. [ whistle blowing ] where do you hear that beat? campbell's healthy request soup
i mean, my god, the denunciations of the anc at the time. it was as though these people were, you know, were like, you know, the cultural revolution in china. it was just this sort of unthinkable thing that was sweeping down on an allied government. and then you look at them now. it's fine. it worked out just fine. >> right. and the remarkable thing is that reconciliation that happens, and the forging of this kind of multiracial national identity that mandela is now being praised for,...
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in that october, that was the first time the anc was allowed to gather in the legal fashion. it was considered a terrorist group at the time. i remember how the crowd hushed for the first time. they raised their hands in the air and sang the national anthem. it means god bless africa, had been illegal up until that point in october 1989. at that point you knew things were changing rapidly and the clerk had started something he wasn't going to be able to stop. a par tide was ending. nelson man dell laugh was to be released from prison. he was held on robin island five miles off the coast and like alcatraz like many years. he talked where he wrote his long walk to freedom, auto biography. they spent grueling hours in the sun breaking rocks on the island looking in the distance at the mountain in cape town and the beautiful cape town in the distance. mandela became close to his prison guards. i remember when we were down there in 1990 in february that they had to release a picture of what he looked like. it had been illegal for any newspaper to publish a picture of mandela. in f
in that october, that was the first time the anc was allowed to gather in the legal fashion. it was considered a terrorist group at the time. i remember how the crowd hushed for the first time. they raised their hands in the air and sang the national anthem. it means god bless africa, had been illegal up until that point in october 1989. at that point you knew things were changing rapidly and the clerk had started something he wasn't going to be able to stop. a par tide was ending. nelson man...
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that's true in the anc of many leader. they made a sacrifice for the cause, and it took an economic toll on their families. >> we're seeing the outpouring in these days since mandela's death, but how distant a figure had he become in the country? >> not distant at all. i think nelson mandela was still the moral center. and many with their disappointment about the leadership of the anc and its more material orientation would refer back to nelson mandela. 2005, 2007, 2011, his presence was still important within the anc. you'll recall in 2013 the anc leadership took pictures with him to try to shore up their own presence. his activism in the party diminished even just over two years or so. >> we're going to be hearing from president obama later this morning. we'll also hear from several members of the mandela family. that is andrew melengheni, a president with nelson mandela in robben island. appears to be wrapping up again. >> thank you very much. >> thank you very much. we're here to mourn him in dignity. right now we woul
that's true in the anc of many leader. they made a sacrifice for the cause, and it took an economic toll on their families. >> we're seeing the outpouring in these days since mandela's death, but how distant a figure had he become in the country? >> not distant at all. i think nelson mandela was still the moral center. and many with their disappointment about the leadership of the anc and its more material orientation would refer back to nelson mandela. 2005, 2007, 2011, his...
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the policy of forgiveness reconsideration was always anc policy. so that it didn't take prison to do that. theory jet stream tried to plague down how badly it was treating the prisoners. this photograph was a staged event. >> you didn't know this was taken. >> no, we didn't know this was taken. >> the government was trying to make him think he was only doing light work, the prisoners had wondered why for one day only the laboring became easy, but it was to get tougher later, the laboring moved to what was an open lime quarry, 13 years of hard toll breaking rock, the dazzling reflection of white stone, damaging their eyesight. when they weren't laboring, they were sometimes allowed visits in this gloomy building, his second wife an activist herself came under a travel babb, one stage mandela waited two years between her visits. >> by regulation, there was a minimum of six months between each visit, and also by regulation, there was no contact. a screen between husband and wife, winny would sit on this side, the communication through a speaker. a max
the policy of forgiveness reconsideration was always anc policy. so that it didn't take prison to do that. theory jet stream tried to plague down how badly it was treating the prisoners. this photograph was a staged event. >> you didn't know this was taken. >> no, we didn't know this was taken. >> the government was trying to make him think he was only doing light work, the prisoners had wondered why for one day only the laboring became easy, but it was to get tougher later,...
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but remember when he came out, he was a loyal member of the anc as he said. part of his virtue as a politician was that he changed and bended. the anc said, national of the minds, he believed that, he changed his mind. but what he always believed and never forgot and it's a little bit unpopular to say he believed politics was way of changing people's lives for the better. and he was proud to call himself a politics that is what he did. >> as politics you also understood dramatic flourish. there were moments, we saw that in 1990 when he did that eight-city tour. i think when he went to detroit he quoted marvin gay. in front of that audience, it was brilliant. mother, mother, too many of -- brother, brother, too many of you are dying, mother, mother, too many are crying. he understood the moment. >> schieffer: what did he say in new york? >> can i just tell a story. when we were doing christmas kindness in south africa go to remote villages. thousands of kids would be waiting for their soccer balls and jersey. a local politician went on for an hour about politi
but remember when he came out, he was a loyal member of the anc as he said. part of his virtue as a politician was that he changed and bended. the anc said, national of the minds, he believed that, he changed his mind. but what he always believed and never forgot and it's a little bit unpopular to say he believed politics was way of changing people's lives for the better. and he was proud to call himself a politics that is what he did. >> as politics you also understood dramatic flourish....
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a terrorist group, from margaret thatcher considered the anc a terrorist group and nelson mandela a terrorist. and this is the '80s. there was a lot of resistance to the idea of the government should fall, much less that this die vestment should take place at all. >> this was in the context of the cold war. and one of the most insidious things that the apartheid south african government did was they couched their oppression in terms of the communist struggle, that essentially the anc was riddled through with communists and pro-cubans. when nelson mandela was freed and made this tour. when he got to miami, he was actually rejected by the local government in miami, two mayors of miami and miami dade would not receive mandela because he was perceived as being pro-castro. so there was this whole sort of cold war fight that was tied up in the south african struggle. and it was part of the reason that the reagan administration opposed the idea of sanctions and divestment from south africa. >> please stay with us. >>> coming up, we will look at the presidency of nelson mandela and how he m
a terrorist group, from margaret thatcher considered the anc a terrorist group and nelson mandela a terrorist. and this is the '80s. there was a lot of resistance to the idea of the government should fall, much less that this die vestment should take place at all. >> this was in the context of the cold war. and one of the most insidious things that the apartheid south african government did was they couched their oppression in terms of the communist struggle, that essentially the anc was...
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he had joined the african national congress, the anc, way back in 1944. the anc and the other major organizations opposing apartheid in south africa had been organized as nonviolent movements, nonviolent resistance, and nonviolent organizing. but after sharpville, they decided that maybe that wasn't enough. after sharpville, they decided they would form a paramilitary wing, and nelson mandela was one of the anc leader who is went underground to help start it. they said they would target government buildings and strategic infrastructure and they would try to sabotage the state. after sharpville, the government of south africa started mass arrests of anc leaders and other activists. they banned the anc. they made it illegal to be a member of that group. nelson mandela was arrested for treason in 1961, he was acquitted and he was convicted of traveling illegally. they sentenced him to five years hard labor on south africa's version of alcatraz, which is robin island. while he was already serving that sentence, while he was already in prison, they put him on
he had joined the african national congress, the anc, way back in 1944. the anc and the other major organizations opposing apartheid in south africa had been organized as nonviolent movements, nonviolent resistance, and nonviolent organizing. but after sharpville, they decided that maybe that wasn't enough. after sharpville, they decided they would form a paramilitary wing, and nelson mandela was one of the anc leader who is went underground to help start it. they said they would target...
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and what was interesting is, of course, there were many factions within the anc. some of them who thought, no, this is our time. and no, not reconciliation, but it's our time. and he would have none of pit. and started an amazing process in the country. bringing people and communities together. and united what i think many of us were worried was an impossible situation to unite a country peacefully behind his leadership. >> there are so many instances both during his presidency and afterwards where he brought people together where he was able to forge compromise. and we've heard a lot about president obama from him and from others about how he has been inspired by nelson mandela. you can't get a more vivid contrast than between the way nelson mandela operated and much of what we see in congress these days. is there anything you see at all that might suggest that this will give people a moment to pause to think and to say maybe there are lessons here to be learned. maybe there are ways. i mean, this is a man who forgave his persecutors, people who jailed him, peopl
and what was interesting is, of course, there were many factions within the anc. some of them who thought, no, this is our time. and no, not reconciliation, but it's our time. and he would have none of pit. and started an amazing process in the country. bringing people and communities together. and united what i think many of us were worried was an impossible situation to unite a country peacefully behind his leadership. >> there are so many instances both during his presidency and...
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to what extent can they keep him, what happens when mandela goes effectively to the anc majority. they're still more than 60% of the vote is what they get, but they're being challenged from essentially both left and right. and that's going to be very interesting once we have gone through the next few weeks of memorialization and how the dust settles on that. >> 15 seconds, do you think that mandela's legacy will stay alive or is this one of those moments which seems very, very profound five years ago will have forgotening him? >> my fear, talking about the brand of mandela's legacy is that the west, the emphasis has been so much on his legacy, that once he forgive and had overcome an unjust system, and that the struggle continues to create a more just society, just as it did in the united states after legal segregation was aboll learned. my hope a s that mandela isn't too domesticated and sanitized now in his death. >> thank you all three of you. wonderful panel. up next, japan loves violent video games, just like america. but they have almost no gun violence. why? we'll explain o
to what extent can they keep him, what happens when mandela goes effectively to the anc majority. they're still more than 60% of the vote is what they get, but they're being challenged from essentially both left and right. and that's going to be very interesting once we have gone through the next few weeks of memorialization and how the dust settles on that. >> 15 seconds, do you think that mandela's legacy will stay alive or is this one of those moments which seems very, very profound...